openingyourselfuptojoy | Meta Wednesday!

How did this season line up with previous seasons, as far as parallels go? Any and all things concerning parallels should go here!

Season two finale, Rachel and Kurt talk about choosing between career and love. (Rachel says "What about Finn?" and Kurt says "Bring him! He'll be useful for moving heavy things." LOL.)

Season three finale, Rachel can't have love and career at the same time.

Discussing song lyrics and choices should go here!

In the original Somebody That I Used To Know, it's a duet between a douchebag and his ex. Gotye says basically "You're being so distant and weird since we broke up and it sucks" and Kimbra says "Well yeah, you were a total DICK." But they've split up the lines differently between Cooper and Blaine, so it's not all "Whine whine whine" / "You're a tool." Both Blaine and Cooper sing Gotye's lines, but Blaine is the only one who sings Kimbra's lines.

Also, changing your number is kind of a big deal. It's not a normal break up thing, it's a "Stop calling me and leaving passive aggressive messages on my voicemail" thing. Both Blaine and Cooper sing that line at different times, which basically cancels it out (neither of them actually changed their number) but it kind of makes it sound like they're both the creepy passive aggressive one. Maybe?

The episode version isn't that much shorter than the original. They only cut out five lines. These are those lines:
Told myself that you were right for me
But felt so lonely in your company
But that was love and it's an ache I still remember
You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness
Like resignation to the end, always the end

Too relationshippy? They left in some very relationshippy stuff, like "when we were together" and "I wouldn't catch you hung up on somebody that you used to know" so maybe it's just too depressing. Thoughts?

Glory Days is kind of a bizarre choice for a graduation ceremony.

I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, sitting back trying to recapture
A little of the glory of, well time slips away
And leaves you with nothing mister
but boring stories of glory days

It fits right in with things that have been said before in the show (by Quinn?) about how high school is going to be the high point of their lives, particularly for the cheerleaders and football players. But wow, depressing. (I think things have also been said about this with regard to Will and Terry? "I'm not the head cheerleader anymore and you're not the golden boy.")

summon needs_more_green here.

Discuss the characters themselves and any meta you have on them here!

My partner continues to believe that Kurt's tendency to enjoy girl's clothing and his simultaneous discomfort with being seen as feminine are the result of sloppy writing, and that if I see it as Kurt having complicated feelings on gender and fashion, that I must be creating patterns where there are none and revising the text for my own benefit.

To me it makes perfect sense that Kurt is definitely male but likes ladies' sweaters, brooches, even skirts occasionally and a corset (off screen) that one time. Kurt loves fashion, and probably knows all about the unisex fashion movement of the 60s, and the men's skirts designed by Armani and Marc Jacobs. And it also makes sense to me that Kurt wouldn't be interested in wearing a dress and heels (except for on Halloween) because like Unique said, Kurt identifies as a man. Kurt's clothing choices are about looking good and wearing things he likes, not about looking female. He didn't even want to play a transvestite character in Rocky Horror. He listed fishnets, heels, and lipstick as things he wouldn't want to wear. There seem to be items he views as definitively female, and the long sweaters and brooches he's so fond of aren't on the list.

And yet he never wants to be on the boys' team when the group is divided by gender. Is my partner right that it's sloppy writing? Or is it just that Kurt likes the girls better, has more in common with them, likes the same music as them, and is uncomfortable around or even afraid of the boys sometimes? He called himself an honorary girl. Is he contradicting himself?

With respect to Kurt's preference for being on the girls team, I agree with you that it's a combination of "has more in common" and "feels safer" with the girls. The two girls vs boys competitions are early in seasons 1, where Kurt's very recent history was being thrown into dumpsters by the football team, and season 2, where he's being bullied by Karofsky and is stressed and frustrated. He feels safer with the girls, who like him and are comfortable around him.

I think it's totally consistent for Kurt to ID as strongly as male while still pushing what that means in terms of how he dresses. I mean, I identify pretty strongly as female, but I'm currently wearing a men's shirt and unisex shoes that were probably bought from the men's dept for sizing. Sometimes I'm just more comfortable in men's clothes, or they feel more practical. Fashion is so much about how you present yourself to the world - I feel like for Kurt it's more about standing out and being creative/unconstrained then necessarily about gender.

I spend probably way too much time thinking about Kurt and gender and still fail to come to solid conclusions. I really don't think it's sloppy writing, though. At worst, we have a young character dealing with a lot of very complex stuff: sexuality, sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, what's allowed, what's transgressive, what others see & tell him he is... It's a lot for a fairly isolated teenage boy in a small conservative town to process!

I think Kurt clearly identifies himself as male and homosexual, but he is also heterosocial. I don't think these things cancel each other out at all. I do agree with

tilia_cordata that a lot of the heterosocial stuff is about safety for Kurt. Even if he wanted to hang out with the boys, through the first season, what were his options? Even in second season, up to NBK, they're pretty rude to him (except Mike and Sam). That's part of the magic at Dalton: he gets to be a boy among boys. (But he misses the girls, because they share common interests.)

As far as gender identity goes, I'm not honestly sure where Kurt would put himself relative to masculine and feminine. He may opt out altogether and simply identify as Kurt, who is male, but not limited by that fact. I think Chris said in an interview something along the lines of he views Kurt as more grandeur than guy. I think that's a good way to think of it. Kurt's gender is grand.

His gender expression is non-conforming, but he doesn't want to be seen as a transvestite. Fashion may have no gender for Kurt, but he is male (and he wants the world to know he's male), so he doesn't want to be mistaken for female or even overtly feminine. He wears mens' clothing comfortably, though he tends to add embellishments that bend the social conventions and incorporates occasional womenswear pieces. I think, though YMMV, Kurt has his own fairly specific idea of his identity as a gay male, but it is not the same as everyone else's (e.g., the boy is not delicate), it breaks the rules of convention, and it's often misunderstood.

So, I vote for complex and nuanced, not sloppy? Humans are, after all, complex, and there's not a one-to-one correspondence between all these different aspects of sexuality, sex, and gender identity, and of course, it's not binary for many of us. :)

I definitely agree with all of this. The only thing I can think of that contradicts my "Kurt sees himself as definitely male all the time" theory is when he calls himself an honorary girl and says his allegiance is with the ladies. Did he only say that because of his preference for joining the girls' team?

Ah, okay. Hmm. I'm not sure these are necessarily all that contradictory.

I think the honorary girl thing doesn't impact his sexual identity as male one way or the other. It's just a normal verbal way of identifying the inclusion of someone a little different in a more homogeneous social group. E.g., If Emma's parents really liked Will maybe they would consider him an honorary ginger and invite him to The Red Oaks.

As for the allegiance with the ladies, that's in season one when Kurt really doesn't have male friends. The boys are still unkind to him, so, given his heterosocial friendships, I think it's expected his loyalties would be with his actual friends, the ladies (where he is safe), and not the guys, some of whom may still be tossing him in the dumpster. It's Will that forces the sex based division within the Club, too, so that choice is not really Kurt's to make anyway. He's just trying to stay safe and hang out with/help his friends.

Maybe part of why this seems contradictory is that, traditionally, it's more transgressive for boys to hang out with the girls than vice versa, so what Kurt does seems more significant than perhaps it does that Lauren chooses to spend time with boys (on the wrestling team). It's like the Madonna song the boys sang, "What it feels like for a girl". It's okay for a girl to do stuff or like stuff traditionally done by or liked by boys, because boys are awesome. But for a boy to choose female companionship and interests, well, there's something off there because girl stuff is less awesome. Maybe that boy isn't a real boy. But of course, there isn't anything wrong there; we're just conditioned by our world to internalize this kind of misogyny and effemephobia** to the point it becomes invisible. I am no feminist scholar, so I could be waaaay off here.

And, again, I think gender identity-wise, Kurt is Kurt, Kurt is grand. He can do things considered feminine: sing like a girl, cook, sew, wear a little makeup or plaid women's pants, a poncho, a skirt, without being any less comfortable being male. He does what he does because he's not limited by drawing a solid unbreakable correspondence between having a penis (being male) and the (non gender conforming) ways he expresses himself, the people he loves, or the passions of his life.

**To be clear, I'm absolutely NOT accusing you or anyone else here of misogyny or effemephobia! Just the world we live in that shapes our unconscious perceptions. God knows I've struggled with enough internalized misogyny myself. That stuff is sticky.

I hope at least some of all that made sense. I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so the brain may not be booted up yet. :)

(Also, this is fun, talking about Kurt & gender stuff!)

Ah, you're totally right that "honorary girl" doesn't mean "actually a girl." That makes so much sense. I was thinking of it like how getting an honorary degree means you have that degree without taking the classes, but it's more like your example, where being an honorary ginger doesn't mean you have red hair.

I'd like to point out that you have equated being male with having a penis, which isn't actually the same thing at all. Unique/Wade was assigned male at birth but doesn't identify as male, and Kurt could just as easily be something other than male regardless of his genitalia. That sentence would make more sense like this: "he's not limited by drawing a solid unbreakable correspondence between being male and the (non gender conforming) ways he expresses himself".

I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks like this, but in my head I tend to relate Kurt's gender expression with Darren Criss', because he's definitely male, but also unapologetically wears nail polish and pink and talks about unicorns and sings lines like "one fine day you're gonna want me for your girl" and "I am the coolest girl in the whole wide world" without changing the words or making it into a joke. I tend to think of him as kind of a genderqueer hero for that reason. I have no idea how he thinks of his own gender identity and I don't want to assume anything, but he's been kind of an inspiration to me in terms of not fitting myself into a narrow gender box.

I don't know much about the misogyny stuff, but I like your thoughts relating it to the Madonna song they sang.

I'm not sure how I feel about Kurt's gender being "grand" as opposed to male or female or genderqueer or bigender or agender or something else real and practical. "Grand" makes it sound like he thinks he's better than everyone else, which I suppose he might, but it's hard to relate to. But if Chris said it, it must be true, because he's the one portraying Kurt and really getting into his head. I don't suppose you have a link to the interview?

Ah, I'm sorry about the penis/male comment. I was being inappropriately flippant and really only meaning Kurt. I think "Not the Boy Next door" left an indelible impression on me (and looking from IAU to "Choke" there's a lot going on there with Kurt's maleness and perceived masculinity, at least some of which manifests in his showing off his attributes in those gold pants). So, I'm sorry if that came off a rude or insensitive. :( It really wasn't meant as a generalization about bodies and sexual identity.

Chris and the interview. It came out around "Yes/No". And, of course, Chris being Chris, take it with a spoonful of salt. He's laughing as he talks about Kurt and gender and hanging out with the girls. Interview is here:

http://www.theinsider.com/tv/48694_Chris_Colfer_back_for_Glee_season_4/

Yes, Darren is hands down awesome.

I think sometimes gender is hard to label. I'm non binary, but I don't like most of the labels out there; they often feel too prescriptive to me, like I'm being pressured to fit myself into a box, and really I just want to be the human being I am, so perhaps I am projecting my own discomfort with gender labels onto Kurt. For me, it's not practical to try fit myself to a label that doesn't. But, of course, YMMV. I don't know--can't know really, unless he tells us--what label Kurt would choose for himself if he were to choose, or even if the character is aware enough of labels to know he could choose masculine or something else if he wished to.

I don't think grand necessarily implies arrogance, though Kurt certainly does wear his air of superiority like armor in S1.

Ah, now it's my turn to apologize. I'm sorry for equating a limited set of gender labels with "realness" and "practicality". Of course those labels don't work for everyone and people can make up their own labels or not pick one at all. That was hypocritical of me because I'm undecided on my own label right now. Oops. (But I really want one, so maybe that's why I'm impatient with the idea of not having one?)

Thank you for the link! I like seeing Chris' thoughts on the subject.

Oh, and apology accepted! Thanks!

Yeah, Not the Boy Next Door was pretty crazily awesome and Kurt was very manly and sexy. :D But then, I've thought he was manly and sexy since Le Jazz Hot. :D

Oh, hey, no apologies necessary at all. On the internet my default position is to assume no offense is intended unless someone has started calling me rude names. :) And heck, I've spent enough time navel gazing about my own gender that I totally get that, especially how labels can be important and useful and empowering. I just never found one that fit. I use androgynous with other folks simply because it's a word most people are likely to know, but it's only a description to me, not my whole identity. But that's just me, and everyone gets to identify themselves in the way that suits them best. :) I wish you success in finding your own comfortable place there. <3

Totally with you on Kurt and his sexiness. "The Power of Madonna" was when I first noticed his sex appeal, and it's only been getting better since. He didn't need to put on the gold pants for me to get it! When Beiste complained that she wanted a Tony to excite her lady parts, I was kinda baffled (as I'm sure many of us were). ;)

Oh whoops, Le Jazz Hot was way later than I thought it was. Ok, he was sexy LONG before that! LOL.

I totally didn't get Beiste's comment at all. Why do Glee characters have so much trouble seeing how hot Kurt is? Mercedes and Dave both only liked him because he seemed like their only option, and other than that it took until Chandler for anyone other than Blaine to see it. And Blaine took forever getting there. Whereas in real life Chris gets mobbed wherever he goes, LOL.

It was an especially confusing comment because Beiste herself is gender non-conforming and has gotten a lot of flack for it, so it seemed like a little internalized self-hatred or something.

Thanks for the good wishes! I appreciate the kind words. :)

Yeah, it's an enduring mystery of Glee that Kurt didn't--at the least--have some wide-eyed freshmen girls following him around between classes, because he's become so frickin' beautiful. He is exactly the kind of senior boy I would have had a terrible hopeless crush on when I was a freshman, anyway.

Ooh, interesting about Beiste! I am wondering now, after reading your comment, if maybe Glee -- since it likes its dramatic irony -- specifically had Beiste utter that line because she is also gender non-conforming, but in a different way than Kurt is. Maybe it is part of her internalized self-hatred, as you suggest, because she feels like girl, but she doesn't look like a girl. She's got a dysphoria that's affected her seriously in her life and relationships, so maybe she's unwilling to really see Kurt, the not so delicate, completely (sexually) compelling boy, through his gender transgressions, because she wouldn't choose to be so misunderstood herself, but perhaps to her it seems that he does choose it (even though we know from "Laryngitis" and "Theatricality" that the element of choice for Kurt is not that simple or easy or pain free). Not sure. It is definitely worthy of more thought!

And, in the interests of not being a jerk again, when I say Shannon 'doesn't look like a girl', I mean by her own internal standards based upon when she says "I don't look how pretty girls look". That and her general sense of her own unlovableness makes me think think she has serious issues with her physicality (even as she embraces it and gets strength from it in other ways as per her conversation with Britt in S2 AVG). But she still doesn't maybe believe that there's nothing wrong with being a butch girl. Butch girls are hot, too.

(I apologize if anyone took offense at my repeated carelessness with words.)

I'm dropping this little thought here before I forget it!

In "Big Brother" Sue thinks (blue-eyed) Cooper is (blue-eyed) Kurt's brother. Haha, yes, Sue is funny and rude. But, could this be another little flag for Blaine and race stuff? An implication maybe he and Cooper are (at most) half-brothers? What is going on?

Combined with Cooper's (I'm paraphrasing) "We're more than brothers, aren't we?" [awkward pause] "We're friends" and Blaine's teary reply? I know some are reading this as possibly incestuous? What if it's more an indication of Blaine feeling othered within his own family? Maybe part of what's got Blaine choked up is that the notion of 'we're more than brothers' implies 'we're at least brothers'.

I just feel like there's SO MUCH going on with Blaine and his family that hasn't been revealed, but it's all simmering up behind Blaine's sad faces.

My first thought when Sue called Cooper Kurt's brother was that she was being her offensive self again, making it seem like she was unable to tell which gay kid was which (like with her "Asian" / "other Asian" thing). But I could also see it being a race thing. Interesting that she thinks Cooper is a Disney prince but not Blaine.

I didn't get the same meaning you did from the "more than brothers" line, but here's some other stuff I can recall about Blaine's race:
- Rachel says Blaine can one day give her vaguely Eurasian looking babies.
- Four year old Blaine has gel in his hair, and was played by a kid who is part Japanese and part Native.
- When Blaine doesn't have gel in his hair, Brittany says not to make fun of the new kid's fro.
- Kurt thinks Blaine looks good with a little color and wants him to use bronzer.

I feel like there was more but I can't remember right now.

Yeah, with Sue it's hard to tell when it's just her usual rudeness or something to pay attention to! So I may well be overreaching at the importance of this line. It could be a random throwaway. But, then, Glee is often more clever than it initially seems (and they play a long game), so I don't take anything for granted.

Thanks for the other possible race relevant bits with Blaine. I was trying to think of them all myself but all I could remember was Rachel's line from BIOTA.

In case you aren't on tumblr, the Klaine fandom rallied together and bought the script for "An Extraordinary Merry Christmas" and have put bits and pieces of it up online.

http://theboxscene.tumblr.com/post/24029350844/the-box-scene

We should discuss the script vs. what we saw and how it changes things, yes/yes/yes?

OMG! :D

Read the scene before reading my reaction because I'll totally spoil it for you.

Ok. So Blaine hands Kurt a very small present and Kurt's immediate reaction is "If this is a ring the answer's yes! Let's elope!" Later, Rachel says she said yes to Finn, and Kurt says "You're an idiot, you're way too young to get married." and Rachel knowingly says "What if Blaine asked you? You'd say yes, wouldn't you?" and Kurt silently glares. That conversation was totally a reference to the box scene. ;)

"To kiss you whenever and where ever you want."

Like, where on his body, or...? LOL

I'd like to take this to mean "If you're ever comfortable kissing in public, unafraid what people will think, I'll be right there with you." D'awww.

Given Kurt's feelings on the Finchel engagement, I was surprised to read the words "proposal" and "elope" coming from him in the script!

But then again, all that Blaine can offer him in the state of Ohio is a paper ring. And now we know that Blaine's hope for "marriage equality in all fifty states" (in OMW) has personal meaning for him and is more than just a political sentiment.

Also, in DWS, Kurt's line to Rachel about he and Blaine being a fabulous old married couple has a different weight to it, and it hooks that together wonderfully with his "Notebook" scenario in "Goodbye". Of course Kurt is never saying goodbye to Blaine (and not just because he said it before in BTW); he already considers them married.

There is a reference in Promosaurus that went right over my head. When Blaine is watching TV in the hotel room, he says "This is a rerun. It's the one with the lesbian and the doggy care." What show is he talking about?

I think it might be this show? Which ties in with Kurt's email to Will about Sue being meaner than Tabatha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabatha_Takes_Over

Ah, thanks! I've never seen that show but it seems like you could be right. :)

Meta Wednesday!

Parallels!

Re: Parallels!

Song Meta

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Color Theory

Characterization and Other Meta

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Blaine, race, and "Big Brother" Re: Characterization and Other Meta

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Re: Blaine, race, and "Big Brother" Re: Characterization and Other Meta

the Box Scene

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References in Dialog

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